Powerball:
I was reading a post in which you said "No one is assured of Salvation". I was brought up believing once a person is saved that can not be lost. Can you explain more about why you believe the way you do?
Thanks for you question. With all due resepect what you have been taught is a false doctrine. "Once Saved, Always Saved" seems to have blossomed with Fundamentalist Christians.
You asked why I believe what I do. The perfect example of how this doctrine is false is Judas Iscariot. He believed in Jesus Christ, walked with Him, was one of the Twelve and was given the same powers from Him as the others. Yet what Christian believes that Judas Iscariot went to Heaven? According to this doctrine, I would say Fundamentalist Christians would have to believe Judas is in Heaven as he more than met the requirements of salvation according to this doctrine.
Another good example is Lucifer (Satan) - abided in Heaven, knew God Himself, lived with God Himself yet he was not "saved" when given the opportunity for he now resides in Hell as punishment for the sin of pride. This sin occurred after having known and accepted God.
In my opinion, this doctrine helps Satan greatly by instilling a false sense of security and self-confidence among Christians concerning their salvation. They think they can't sin anymore and even if they do, no punishment will be due them as Christ paid for all our sins. This makes it much easier for Satan to tempt us with the sin of presumption.
How can we be assured of our own salvation if St. Paul wasn't (1 Corinthians 9:27)?
Salvation is not a "one time" event, but an ongoing process until "the end" (Matthew 10:22; 24:13; Mark 13:13).
4 comments:
Well said, I had many arguments with Non-Catholic christians on the same subject, I firmly believe that you can lose your salvation, just as easily as losing your life.
To think that a person could lose their salvation necessitates believing that person "got" their salvation in the first place, which they didn't because it is the gift of God. (2 Thess. 2:13, Romans 4:4-8, Luke 18:18-27, 1 Cor. 1:26-31)
We can't use any person as evidence of "losing salvation" because none of us is able to say with certainty if they were saved in the first place. (Matthew 7:21-29) We can judge by their fruits if they are walking with God, but perhaps they are just walking in similar fashion instead of actually with. It was only the disciples who were fooled by Judas. Jesus Christ was never fooled by him.
We can take confidence in His faithfulness to us. (John 10:25 - 30)
John 3:14-18 says: "14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Reading "everyone who believes in Him may have everlasting life" shows me something that can be relied upon.
Reading "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned" shows me something else that can be counted upon.
Again, we can take assurance in our own salvation, not that of another.
Logically speaking, if we cannot trust that we are saved now, then we must live making the effort to have the kind of life that will get us into Heaven, thus taking away the "gift" part and making it something we've earned which is impossible according to the Scriptures above.
Either those Scriptures are wrong or they aren't. If they are wrong, they cannot then be trusted.
"Another good example is Lucifer (Satan) - abided in Heaven, knew God Himself, lived with God Himself yet he was not "saved" when given the opportunity for he now resides in Hell as punishment for the sin of pride. This sin occurred after having known and accepted God."
~That could not be true because first, angels did not have to "accept" God. We are unique in that distinction. Second, it doesn't fit to think that he had given himself in humility to God because if he had, he wouldn't have fallen.
"In my opinion, this doctrine helps Satan greatly by instilling a false sense of security and self-confidence among Christians concerning their salvation."
~Reread the Scriptures I marked above and if there is no security to be found in those, I'll need you to please debunk them clearly.
"They think they can't sin anymore and even if they do, no punishment will be due them as Christ paid for all our sins."
~There is a small group, mostly Word of Faith types, who believe this way. This is overwhelmingly taught against by conservative, honest theology and I'm surprised, VERY surprised, that you think most Christians feel that way. That isn't taught on the ministry programs on the radio station, so I am really surprised.
Scripture makes clear that we all sin daily, and need to repent constantly despite our salvation. However, if a Christian should die not having repented to The Lord of a sin, to say that sin would keep him or her out of Heaven is to again take the power of salvation out of the hands of God and put it into the hands of man.
Christ paid the price for our Sin, capital "S", that enslaving guiding force in the life of the human. Once saved, we commit sins with a small "s", but those have even been accounted for in His atonement.
Yes, the Christian can and does sin and still gets into Heaven. The thing to ask is if that Christian is sinning less as the days go by, and if The Holy Spirit is convicting them of their sins.
"How can we be assured of our own salvation if St. Paul wasn't (1 Corinthians 9:27)?"
If you continue to 2 Corinthians you see that Paul talks of rewards above and beyond salvation itself. It is this reward discussion which fits best here because you find Paul elsewhere quite sure in Christ.
We have the seal of the Holy Spirit upon salvation as further evidence.
(John 17:20-21, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, 7:23, 2 Corinthians 6:16-18)
Romans 8:1
1 Therefore there is NOW no condemnation for those who ARE IN Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus HAS set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God DID: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemnED sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:1-4 (NASB)
~emphases mine.
If one can't lose their salvation why is there a Hell?
"If one can't lose their salvation why is there a Hell?"
The phrasing of this question would require the assumption that everyone had salvation to begin with, but not everyone does. All are born in Sin and it is those who are saved in Christ who don't go to hell.
In reference to your question though, first and foremost it is the place of punishment for Satan and his followers. (Matthew 25:41) It will also be the place for those people who chose to follow him instead of God.
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