THE DIOCESE OF PITTSBURGH ON "BODIES ... THE EXHIBITION"

Beginning in October 2007 through April 2008, “Bodies…The Exhibition” will be held at the Carnegie Science Center. (In Pittsburgh, PA) The exhibit features dozens of preserved cadavers in posed positions, fetuses in various stages of development, and other body parts. The bodies were obtained by Premier Exhibitions from the Dalian Medical University in China, a leading international institution in anatomical studies.

“Bodies … The Exhibition” has raised a number of concerns, most particularly the fact that the bodies were obtained without valid and informed consent. The bodies had been unclaimed and unidentified and were obtained by Dalian Medical University from Chinese police.

Representatives of the Diocese of Pittsburgh met with those involved in the exhibit at Carnegie Science Center to discuss the issues involved. All agreed that the educational benefits of “Bodies…The Exhibition” were clear. Additionally, the location of the exhibition allows manifold opportunities for reflection and exploration of the issues involved in the display, while making an extraordinary visual presentation of the dignity and miracle of human creation.

With the assurances that the affidavits provide over the source of the bodies and fetuses, and the understanding that it is morally ethical that bodies unclaimed over a definitive period of time can be used for medical study and education, the Diocese of Pittsburgh concludes the following:

Bodies … The Exhibition” can provide worthwhile and effective opportunities to promote learning and to explore issues in the natural sciences, morality and spirituality;

“Bodies … The Exhibition” is certainly not appropriate for all audiences. Individuals in general and parents in particular must consider their own and their children’s sensitivities when determining whether or not to attend the exhibit;

The discussion generated in the public arena in anticipation of this exhibit is a valuable one that has raised serious questions about the dignity of the human person and how that dignity is expressed, protected and promoted. We applaud this public discourse on a matter so important to the fostering of a good society. We encourage continued dialogue on these important topics and welcome the opportunity to participate in them over the course of the exhibit’s stay in Pittsburgh.

Full Statement

43 comments:

Mom de Guerre said...

Thank you for posting this. I came across it by accident. I'm extremely disappointed. I really expected the church to stand up against this attack on humanity. It would have been a stand for what's good and right, instead of caving in to what is common, vulgar and wrong. Allowing the production representatives to 'assure' the church leaders with 'promises' isn't enough. There is no oversight to ensure these profiteers are being ethical. I'm so sad about this.

John14:15 said...

So, the Diocese of Pittsburgh has publicly stated that a person who is without known family or friends to claim his body is considered thereby available in death to have his or her body subjected to the ethically questionable treatment of being plasticized, posed, and exhibited to the general public? How is this respectful of human dignity, human freedom, the intrinsic value of a person who is always body and soul? This doesn't even address the utter lack of credibility of "documentation and affidavits" from the government of China and its agents considering that country's horrific abortion policies compounded by its abysmal record on human rights.

Mom de Guerre said...

Yes, John 14:15. They sold out. I am dumbstruck. Help me process this! The press release states that its positive to promote community dialog. Have you been in the blogsphere for long? The "community dialog" there is just the lost wandering around in the muck. Where is our moral leadership? I can tell you that my children would be ruined if sent to these exhibits on a school field trip. And yet thousands will go. What about those poor sensitive children whose parents are not front and center? I am appalled.

Anonymous said...

I saw this exhibit in Columbus, and its absolutely amazing. I spent more than 10 years in the Army and underwent extensive first aid and combat aid training, and I learned more about human anatomy in this exhibit than in all my training. For everyone critical of the exhibit, my first questions is "have you seen it?" I also learned more about the exhibition at the Science Center's website - they have a bunch of information about the bodies there. I'm just suggesting taking a look and opening your eyes to all of the facts before condemning the exhibit.

Mom de Guerre said...

I have no doubt that it is educational. I know the human body is beautiful. But, open your eyes to the controversy and do some reading before you naively go and assume its ok. There are no consent forms, and the production companies have admitted that. The bodies come from China where there are more than 11 body processing plants next to prisons in Dalain. There are NO US regulations on bodies for public display (and profit) and 2 billion dollars in profit made in the last 2 years on the 'new entertainment industry' as a whole. Being from the Army I'm sure you're not so naive as to think this business has the public's edification and best interests in mind over the almighty dollar.

John14:15 said...

Dear Anon,
Yes it is best to know about a thing before you condemn it -- but one cannot and should not participate in every action even if only to gain understanding. One can and must sometimes only use reason to evaluate whether a thing, though perhaps having practical benefit, is however immoral due to its unjust treatment of individuals or groups and is thus ultimately detrimental. This particular case is clear -- how are the individual persons whose bodies are, without their explicit consent, so processed and displayed to the public, being given the respect and fair treatment they deserve? Even those of human society who are the poorest of the poor, unclaimed in death, must be accorded their human dignity. This is the more valuable lesson to teach our children.

Mom de Guerre said...

Thank you John 14:15. I agree. Do you need to experience murder to know its wrong? If all your friends were attending an awe inspiring new ballet, where it was well known the dancers were held in cages at night, but performed the most lyrical, transcendent dances, would you go? For me, the more beautiful the dance, or exhibit, the more griefstruck I would become. We are not commodities. I don't want my children to grow up in a world that is unclear about that, either.

Shaun Pierce said...

Thanks for both sides of the argument. I saw an exhibit called "Body Worlds" in Cleveland. It's similar and I have to say I had to remind myslef that they were real people. To me is was like a model you would see in a doctor's office. Only more detail and better lighting.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. The one I saw, people willingly signed up to donate their body. In this one we just don't know.

I think different people look at the world in different ways. If we never explored what is inside the body, we would not have the medical advances we have today. I'm not saying this is the same, but maybe a person will be inspired to become a surgon or doctor later in life.

There is something strangly appealing about still being of use even after you are dead. I know many will disagree with this exhibit but it is the soul we must be concerned about much nore than the body.

Anonymous said...

No one has to go and see it if they feel its offensive, personally I wouldn't want to but I don't feel that the church did anything wrong by saying what they did either.

John14:15 said...

Dear Powerball & Anon,

This is a great discussion! The only one on the blogs I think.

But we are body and soul, not more one than the other, though as Jesus said if one must make a choice on earth, we should obey Him who can destroy both body and soul in Heaven. But this doesn't say the body is not as important to our essential being, just that it is better to loose corporal life on earth if we must to preserve soul and body in heaven. Jesus sacrificed His body for us, not His soul, and He gives us His body to eat at every Mass. No, the souls of our children is what concern me, and the rights and dignity of those so displayed. What do our children learn about what we do with others' bodies? To put them skinned and posed on display...children will definitely make the connection that these were living people at one point and will live again in the resurrection. All societies honor their dead. Some hold that honoring the dead is what forms societies. But this exhibit poses and exhibits the dead. Tobit sacrificed a lot to honor the bodies of those Jews left dead on the street. I don't think God arbitrarily commanded this respect for the human corpse. This is the mistake I think some people working for the Diocese of Pittsburgh made - first, to officially approve the usurpation of the poorest peoples' bodies, and secondly to approve what is an essentially disrespectful treatment of the human body. There are many, many other ways to learn about human anatomy and to inspire future medical careers while preserving a visceral respect for human persons grounded in natural law.

John14:15 said...

You also, Sarah! Sorry, I didn't mean to leave you out! Your facts are tremendously helpful. Thanks.

Mom de Guerre said...

Even though, **supposedly** the Bodyworlds exhibit uses consenting bodies, there are still problems I have with these exhibits. In addition to the ones that you mention John14:15, here are some others to consider. First, it disturbs me that Von Hagens comes from a Nazi family and the similarities of this content to those patterns (see Guardian article). Second, I think Von Hagens is certifiable. He was dancing in a parade recently dressed up as a plastinated body, and has started to ask donors if they care about whether they are displayed having sex with same sex or opposite sex after death. (sicko!) Third, when Von Hagens firts started plastination he was also using unconsenting bodies, and had to return bodies due to gunshot wounds to the head. (see Die Spiegel article) I'm sure some of his 'old' bodies, from before he had enough notariety to get donations began, are still around. He's no squeaky clean angel. Fourth, these exhibits treat our bodies as commodoties and that is a dangerous path to travel. Thomas Hibbs calls it body porn. It reduces the human experience down to manipulation of body parts. Fifth, As noted in this interesting academic lecture series(http://blog.lib.umn.edu/sphpod/sphpod/2006/07/one_persons_trash_another_pers_1.html - two lectures, 17 min audio each), not even the basic ethical standards of an anatomical lab are imposed here. There are no inventory tags, no matching of consent forms to bodies, etc etc etc. I could probably come up with ten more but I'll stop before I start to sound like I'm ranting. (or is it too late?. :)

John14:15 said...

Dear Sarah,

No, you are not ranting! Excellent background info, hard cold facts and also a pretty good question about where this will ultimately go. I expected at some point there would be sexual positioning of the persons' bodies, of course just for mature audiences and solely, of course, for the purposes of sex education for the enlightened, uninhibited masses. I am a little surprised this futher desecration was broached so soon. It is good we can speak out, and also prayer and fasting. Without end.

Shaun Pierce said...

Very interesting stuff. I respect both sides here and I still don't have a concrete opinion on this. I think there are pros and cons.

No matter how you feel, it is amazing to get a rare glimpse of God's creation. icmgto

Mom de Guerre said...

Well, Powerball I'm glad to have you host the forum. I'm very interested in this discussion as well, but as you can see I'm already convinced that this is, in a word, diabolical. My father was a physician for 50 years and he taught us that the human body is awesome, beautiful, miraculous and god's gift. Studying it and treating it should be done with dignity and respect. There is nothing respectful about the way they are hauling these bodies around the country, sensationally posed. How will it be respectful (reverently is the museum's favorite word) installed in the Sports Science area, separated from the climbing wall by a partition. Screaming kids on a climbing wall to me does not induce reverence.

If this were at an accredited medical school with fully proven ethics I would have no problem with it. But as a for-profit entertainment, with the shadow of possibillity that some of these people actually gave their lives so that we could 'fascinate' ourselves with God's creation, is beyond perversion. ALL the assurance we have is Gunther von Hagen's and Roy Glover's personal feeling 'comfortable' that their personal 'relationships' are ethical. For Gunther, yes he has a pile of consent forms, but no one has done the inventory work of matching papers to bodies, basic practise for anatomy labs. For Bodies The Exhibition, the Carnegie Science Center points to the production company (making millions let me remind you) for 'assurances' that they are 'comfortable' the 'right' processes have taken place. The Diocese was similarly 'comforted' by Roy Glover, after spending all summer leaning toward banning the exhibit. NO ONE HAS SEEN ANY PAPERWORK. WHO ARE THESE PRODUCTION COMPANY PEOPLE? I didn't see them officially appointed as America's ethical arbitors, or customs directors or CDC directors, or ambassadors to China, did you? Where is the official process on this??? Oh sorry, I forgot. There is none. (Now I'm ranting)

Anonymous said...

The exhibit is amazing but wrong. Damnably wrong, at that.

Amazing if, for no other reason, we now have the technology to preserve bodies in such a fashion.

Wrong because to do so when the bodies come from dead Chinese peasents, are displayed for profit, and without the prospect of Christian burial (unlike medical cadavars,) cheapens life and turns science into a side/freak show.

WAC

John14:15 said...

It's interesting, the debate seems to be falling into two distinct positions:
1. the exhibition is moral because it awes and benefits us.
2. the exhibition is immoral because it harms the persons whose bodies are displayed, and ultimately all of us, although the value of learning about the human body, yet not in this way, is acknowledged

The justifying criterion for morally evaluating the exhibit seems to split pretty distinctly between the spectators' benefit or the rights and dignity of the deceased persons displayed.

Mom de Guerre said...

And the education benefit to the viewer has been questioned. Benefit to the viewer is for entertainment. And so, what kind of society will execute people for entertainment and find no moral fault with that? Well, I guess the coleseums were full, afterall.

Anonymous said...

These are all dead bodies, I don't feel that the science center is wrong for displaying them, if you feel that this is something that you disapprove of, don't go and see it. I think that scientists who torture in the name of science are doing a greater wrong than this display, these animals are living breathing creatures, capable of feeling pain.

I feel the problem here is what the church said about the exhibit.

Mom de Guerre said...

Its as if you've just said to me "well, don't buy that lampshade made of human skin if you don't want one for your living room, but let me have one if I want it." The fact that the church hasn't recognized the wrong doesn't make it right.

I think you misunderstand and misrepresent the objections. If you do some more reading into the controversy it will reveal to you why people would have a problem with what the church said about the exhibits. Its not that anyone is trying to "cramp your style" with their moral convictions, or to rob you of educational opportunities.

The fear is that because of the conditions in China real, living, desperate people are being exploited for money - Pittsburgh ticket money. The fear is, that with no regulation and 2 billion dollars in profit, these exhibits are actually encouraging unethical behavior in the treatment of the poor and voiceless PEOPLE. I don't imagine that you would want to "educate" and "inspire" yourself NO MATTER the cost. (would you?)

The production companies bear the burden of proof. It is a valid question to pose whether they have taken advantage of the multiple opportunities for horrific behavior. Don't you think they should be responsible to prove good business practises to US standards that are required for standard trade and other everyday American practises? At least to prove it to the level of say, importing sausage? Or dogfood? Families conducting a funeral are required to have more paperwork. There are no death certificates, no consent forms, no proof of identity, no health inspection, no guidelines for embalming, no licenses required for handing these bodies, etc etc. Bodies in San Francisco were leaking and the health department found ecoli. Still, school children are touching these things. The public assumes someone is overseeing this, and in fact its just a wide open money pit.

You still think I should just walk around the Carnegie with my eyes and ears shut? Don't buy that lampshade in the gift shop, right?

The thought that some mother is out there searching for her son conveniently labeled "unclaimed", and that Americans are getting so much decadent entertainment and "education" from his beautiful bones haunts me. This is a real possibility.

So, education with ethics and regulation? Absolutely!
High profit, sensationalistic edutainment without proven ethics or any regulation? NO WAY.

Anonymous said...

Well, I do have to say that everyone has a great point, but really… what are you going to use your body for after you die? Forget the moral aspects of everything and think realistically for one second; you’ll have no use for it so why not use it as an educational tool? I’d rather donate my body for a better cause than to be disposed of into the dirt or burned to ashes.

John14:15 said...

Dear Anon,
The basis of societies has always been a relationship with those who have gone before, that is, the dead. The deceased members are remembered, ceremoniously honored, their bodies ceremoniously prepared, ceremoniously preserved, and/or ceremoniously buried. To quote Robert T Miller in his 8-11-06 "First Things" post "we ought to treat human bodies in a manner compatible with the end to which, albeit as parts of wholes, they are naturally ordered. We may not treat dead bodies in just any which way we please." The end he speaks of is our eternal destiny with God in the resurrection of our bodies. If our corpses are needed for bona fide and respectful medical research, or if our corpses are necessary by other ways to save, not merely enhance, human lives, this is moral. Any use short of this standard however is immoral. This immoral act is of course compounded by preemptory enslavement, if you will, of the dead bodies of human persons. Even well-founded suspicion of such enslavement, that is appropriating bodies by criminal or oppressive action, renders immoral the choice to use the bodies for any less purpose that saving human lives. Ignorance is not a valid excuse.

Why is this important? Because societies are built on how we regard those who have gone before how, and on how well we teach our children to value them and the bodies of the still living in every aspect, not just the mechanical.

Mom de Guerre said...

They are not being used as an educational tool. The educational aspect is minimal at best, if you read what professional educators really have to say about it. They are being USED as a COMMODITY. A society that will use people as a commodity....let's see....can we imagine any bad things that can happen from that. Gee. that is dehumanization. Hmmmm. that is the basis for many murders, slavery, racism, torture, the holocaust. I know that man, who has already been dead for some years is not in there at night screaming. Duh.Its the DEHUMANIZATION part that's dangerous, not that you're hurting the corpse. What is so hard about this?

John14:15 said...

The Curt Jester has more on this:
http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/

Anonymous said...

I think that the real issue here is that everyone seems to like to blame the Church for anything and everything that they say, if another demonination would of said the same thing, there would be no issue.

And another point, what happens to unclaimed bodies in morgues, how are those people treated? do they get cremated, buried with respect, I think not.

John14:15 said...

Dear Anon,
Yes, we hold the Church accountable because it has the responsibility to "feed His sheep" sacramentally and doctrinally. We Catholics count on this. However this was no doctrinal statement of the Church, but an opinion issued by staff of the Diocese of Pittsburgh. Such statements issued under diocesan auspices do not necessarily reflect a consensus of the Church's bishops, nor is it binding doctrine, and is not infallible. So if in conscience we feel a statement could result in albeit unintended harm, we have a duty to respectfully say so. No, the issue here is a unallayed concern
that the exhibition dehumanizes us,individually and societally, by desecrating the bodies of persons whose human rights may well have been trampled before and during the commandeering of their bodies for public display.

Mom de Guerre said...

Yes, thanks again for all the good responses. This is a good discussion.

Even unclaimed bodies in US morgues 'enjoy' more regulations for ethical handling. Bodies of executed prisoners in the US 'enjoy' more regulations. These bodies are not covered by any guidelines, license or ethical restrictions normally imposed by our our society in the efforts to be civilized. Certainly you're not saying that they should just be playthings for the rich? Its fine for you not to care about what happens to your body after you die. Fine for you. But that doesn't give you the right to expect everyone to leave that door wide open. We need some MINIMAL societal standards just to be called a 'society'. Otherwise, its just every man for himself. That's not a society...or not a civilized one anyway. Where do you suggest drawing the line? Why keep them in the morgue at all? Take them out for joy rides, drag them around behind cars, use them for target practise, hang them out for Halloween, turn them into dogfood. In that scenario, soon no one will care how anyone treats anyone else, alive or dead. Remind you of someplace that Dante wrote about?

Its a slippery slope. Where does our society say the top of that slope lies? The church should not excuse itself from taking a stand on its answer to that question.

Anonymous said...

It seems as though the Church always disagrees with the things they are not familiar with. The Church, Catholic or any other form of religion, is based on tradition, aka repetitive acts that train them to believe only certain things are alright unless they are told otherwise; If it doesn’t fit into their society or ‘moral ways’ of how things should be done, it automatically needs to be compared to dehumanization, racism, the Holocaust… why not the civil rights movement? Better yet, let’s compare it to the atomic bomb.
Come on, people. It’s an exhibit that features the intricate details of how we, as humans, are pieced together; one of the things I think I enjoy most about the exhibit is that it displays the insides of a human rather than the skin color or race (something we, as Americans, fight so much about) and we’re all able to see first hand just how much we are alike.
Yes, there are debates about where the bodies came from, but if they are unclaimed by family and friends, why not use them for educational purposes? I’m sure these bodies were handled with more care while being transformed to a piece of art than they would have been at the morgue. ART is educational, but I’m pretty sure the only type of art anyone of the faith is OK with is stained glass that depicts Christ hanging from the cross (is that considered to be humane?... just wondering).

Mom de Guerre said...

Rats. I have a photo of a mass execution and I wanted to know if that was what you thought looked like 'more care' but I can't paste it here.

Anonymous thank you for continuing the dialog. I'm enjoying trying to understand where you're coming from, where you're drawing the line in the sand. So, its ok with you, given the high enlightenment that you received from these exhibits, if they were indeed harvested? Your own inspiration would make it ok then?

John14:15 said...

dignityinboston is a website which posts numerous articles and commentaries from various media outlets on Bodies... the Exhibition. In some posts the title "Body Worlds" seems to be used interchangeably with Bodies... the Exhibitons, however the exhibits discussed occur across the country and present some of the same exhibits to be shown in Pittsburgh. The website reports growing indignation nationwide and worldwide. The URL is

http://dignityinboston.googlepages.com/home

Anonymous said...

In Philadelphia there is the Mutter Museum that plays host of over 20,000 different specimens - from a wall of human skulls from all over the world to the world’s largest colon (still filled with fecal matter). There’s also the skeleton of the tallest man in the world displayed there, as well as the petrified body of the Soap Lady, whose body (which was not claimed by a tombstone, family or friends, but was FOUND in the New England area) turned into a soapy substance (known as adipocere). This entire collection was donated by Doctor Mutter in 1858 for the purpose of MEDICAL RESEARCH AND EDUCATION, and I believe that Von Hagens has the same intention of trying to educate people as well as to inspire interest in the medical field.
I am having the most difficult time trying to understand how you can relate this exhibit to a picture of a massacre. I’m sure that even if these bodies had all of the credentials in the world (maybe even including a picture of the soon to be deceased individual shaking Von Hagens hand) to verify that they were donated for Von Hagens cause, you still would disagree while comparing his methods to horrible moments in history, but you have to remember those moments were created due to lack of knowledge as well as scared individuals… those who were looking for someone to blame for their suffering. I refuse to take a step back from an eye opening experience; to decline the chance to become more aware of the world around me as well as to discover what I am physically made of is almost a slap in the face to the one who created us. We were made to explore as well as strive to understand… when we refuse the opportunity we might as well conform to fear.
You can’t try to justify your morals, faith or lack of understanding by pointing fingers at those who test your boundaries; by doing so, you just might find yourself with your finger around the trigger.

Anonymous said...

doesn't any one care to comment on what Ms. Griffin said, or any of the other blogs?

Anonymous said...

The Diocese of Pittsburgh states that this exhibition “can provide worthwhile and effective opportunities to promote learning and to explore issues in the natural sciences, morality and spirituality;” and, even though a lot of people seem to be in an uproar about this, I agree with the Church. You have to think of those among us who refuse to believe in a higher power that they, after seeing this exhibition, might question whether or not there IS a higher power (and questioning is a lot better than denying).

Our bodies are the temple for the Holy Spirit and, while we reside in our bodies, we should treat them with reverence; but, in death what are we to do? Words that are so commonly used to comfort the grieving go as follows, ‘Remember that our bodies are but merely a shell in which we reside in to do God’s work here on Earth;” do we only say this to try and cushion the pain of death or really mean the words ‘only a shell?’

I believe that when Christ does return that our souls will be reunited with our bodies, but not the ones we had while we were on Earth; we will have new ones, a new body that has never experience pain or suffering. It’s hard for me to believe that God would reunite Joseph Merrick (aka, The Elephant Man) with his earthly form; so why not learn from the ‘shells’ we leave behind?

I have to agree with Carol E on this matter, as well. I don’t feel as though the SCIENCE Center (hence the word, Science) is trying to cause turmoil over hosting this exhibit; we should remember that we live in the city of Pittsburgh, a city that has more Universities and hospitals than steel mills these days… it would be uncharacteristic of our community to not host this event. She’s also correct about the way animals are treated for Science sake; why shouldn’t we turn the tables on ourselves for a change; we are the ones studying to improve our wellbeing, not of a rabbit or mouse?

It’s almost as though the people who believe that this science/art/educational exhibit is ‘damnably wrong’ would rather prefer the ‘old school’ ways of learning medicine. For example, during the Roman era, the only way someone was allowed study the human body (the purpose or organs and how they worked, bones and where they connected, ect.) would be to dissect the person while they were still alive-it was a felony to cut open a corpse.
Michelangelo (yes, the Renaissance painter and sculptor) was known for stealing bodies from morgues in order to study the human anatomy to prefect his artwork. For the longest time, Doctors were only allowed to study the anatomy of primates in order to get a better understanding of how we, as humans, operate.

Why are we trying to stand in the way of progress for our health’s sake? Why do we want to deny our right to question the things we once thought were unimaginable? If we are so afraid of crossing new boundaries just to stumble across something that is ‘un-Godly,’ we should have thought about that before we ate the fruit of knowledge.

Mom de Guerre said...

Let me be clear. I have no problem with ETHICAL anatomical displays clearly for education. As for ancient displays in other museums, I cannot comment. That's just deflecting the point. I was trying post the photo of the mass execution because it is CURRENT. This is happening TODAY in China and, with Elaine Catz who is a professional researcher and quit her job at the Carnegie over this, I agree that there is high likelihood there are executed prisoners in these displays, or in their reject burn piles. I'm sure that some of the PEOPLE being executed in that photo, or some like them, are being used for YOUR education and your ticket money. I have a problem with that connection, sorry. I'm not willing to do anything or accept just anything for my own entertainment or inspiration. I guess, if you thought it was educational, you would tour a functioning concentration camp. You'd probably learn a lot from going to an abortion clinic.

Apparently I am in good company with my discomfort. Here are just a few links.

St Louis Archbishop
http://www.myfoxstl.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4201800&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Archdiocese of Vancouver
http://www.rcav.org/whatsnew/body_worlds.htm

Professional Social Ethicist, Thomas Hibbs
Dead Body Porn
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/archive/15/soa/bodyworlds.htm

Anonymous said...

Well said anon. I agree with you totally on your points. Also, I can't believe how many posts there are for this particular item and no comments on the others.

Mom de Guerre said...

The Catholic Diocese looked forward to a 'healthy community dialog'. I see no other place where that is taking place. I guess PowerballPlace is IT. The fact that the other posts are not 'getting attention' I don't think should detract from the exciting and important exchange that at least is compelling the posts here.

John14:15 said...

Why our Bodies are not Shells:

We are our bodies and our souls. It is our own bodies which will be raised from the dead, albeit transformed, not newly created bodies for us. In the Eucharist it is Christ's risen, not re-created, Body that we consume. Resurrection and eternal life with God in our bodies is the end for which each of our bodies was created. It is a common understanding of human beings since creation that the bodies of our dead are due respect and honor, as evidenced by the unbroken history of societal funeral rites, and of taboo against abusing human corpses.

Why Bodies...The Exhibition Contradicts this Understanding:

Putting person's bodies on display denigrates his/her personhood, their souls never mentioned while their bodies are treated as(and actually termed) merely specimens.
This denigration of persons is compounded by the suspect circumstances in which their bodies became part of such a spectacle. The sources of documentation are historically unreliable. Consent, dubious anyway as moral validation, is admittedly absent.

Why Humans Being are Worth More:

Human beings are made in the image of God, unlike mice, rabbits, and every other kind of living organism. God the Son died to redeem human beings, and each person is called by God to become part of the Body of Christ, forever.

No one stands in the way of education or medical or scientific advancements as long as human rights and dignity are not trampled. There are many, many civilized paths to progress. We don't need this one.

Anonymous said...

Urgent! To current and former exhibit employees: an open letter appealing to your better nature.

I know you may have felt an idealistic joy at the chance to participate in what you thought was an ethical scientific opportunity. I also understand, from a conversation or two, that maybe some of you had this confidence erode over the course of the exhibit as you may have observed some of the following:
� Laser sharp focus on profits, such as contests to sell the most earphones.
� Scripted rule books about how to answer questions from the public, even if from your own medical education you would have answered completely differently.
� Blatant scientific mistakes ignored � like a bone missing here and there, erroneous labels, misdirected labels, comments from doctors in the guest book for obvious corrections � ignored.
� And even some especially disturbing stories of health concerns (!!)
� Responsible employees tried to email the production company, but were ignored.
If you or someone you know worked for the production company and would be willing to share your very important stories, please contact me at nobodies4profit@gmail.org.

There are no scientific standards for these companies, as a docent would be expected to adhere to, true. And there are no health inspections for these exhibits. They are self-regulated. These cadavers come into this country as an art exhibit. Medically speaking this is an open door. There are more government requirements for a family funeral displaying a body for 2 days than what is expected of these companies hauling these miserable cadavers around for years for profit. This is a huge concern. These bodies are not inert. They are not stable. We know that.

Docents of these exhibits are often health professionals and medical students, going in to this partnership innocently. But the dream of a future in the health field brings with it responsibility of trust. Please consider the trust the public will expect of you in the future. I�m sure you are concerned that without any health oversight, children on field trips are at risk - (who has guaranteed these people didn�t die of a communicable disease? - there is no documentation!)

I know you don�t want a potential catastrophe on your conscience. You can�t be casual about this. Email me so we can talk.

Confidentiality promised.

Anonymous said...

I feel that the whole issue here is that the Catholic diocese made the statement, if it were made by someone else, I don't think this would be an issue, anyone agree?

Anonymous said...

Besides the Catholic Diocese being the one to make the statement, there are a lot of other factors that come into play with this exhibit that bring issues to the table; but those other issues are based on assumption rather than facts.

The mentioning of other museums in the US who also display human remains as a tool for educational purposes is not deflecting the point in this case, but reinstating the fact that these exhibits are essential for those who are interested in studying medicine over the course of history, different climates and how they effect the preservation of bodies, genetic diseases that effected that era, ect; the only reason why one would probably deny the opportunity to comment on this is because it’s too difficult for them to swallow additional evidence that proves that these types of exhibits that stand toe-to-toe with their boundaries and beliefs are needed by others. (You might want to check around yourself to make sure all the ‘lines in the sand’ that you’ve drawn don’t meet in the shape of a box that you’re standing in.)

Anyone can Google Dalian, China and read up (in the course of five minutes) on how the people over there are being treated; yes, it’s sad and disturbing, but there aren’t any facts or documents which lead to the bodies in this exhibit being that of an executed prisoner; then again, there are not any documents proving otherwise either. The idea of posting a picture of mass execution still holds no ground in this matter; it might be current, but it still does not relate to this topic unless you’re able to dig deep enough to find the piece of string that ties them together, so I’m not exactly sure why anyone would have the desire to display one as a blog. Shock effect? To make people doubt whether or not they should see this exhibit for themselves because the bodies COULD have come from the prisons? Just because someone quits their job doesn’t mean that all of rumors are true; and for anyone to try to use that as a leg to stand on in order to justify their opinions of this matter is really frail minded.
As far as touring mass concentration camps and abortion clinics for education’s sake, C’MON! For making that suggestion, you might as well have spit in the face of the prisoners who are confined to the camps, the mothers of the children they regret aborting as well as the fetuses that are at the bottom of a garbage can… how could one gain knowledge or inspiration from touring a concentration camp or an abortion clinic? If you, Sarah, are trying to belittle me on my stance with this exhibit, you’re going about it in a fashion that’s only disgracing yourself. To compare current issues to our opposing OPINIONS concerning BODIES…THE EXHIBITION is really tactless. Would you like for me to commend you for assuming the worst about these people on display?
I hope that you’re wrong, but until the information we need to prove one of us right surfaces we’ll be on opposite sides of the fence. While I’ll be diving into a world of progressive technology and broadening my mind to the possibilities of medical advancement, you’ll probably be sitting on your couch with a bag of potato chips watching Lifetime while feeling sorry for yourself as well as the mothers on the TV who are looking for their stolen babies.

Shaun Pierce said...

Well that was a bit rough. It think this discussion has reached it's end.

I tend to lean innocent untill proven guilty. If you want to see this display go for it. If not, I respect that.

I only wish we were so worried about live people rather than dead ones.

Anonymous said...

The evaluation of this display is best judged in the reactions of our children. I personally witnessed-- as a teacher-- the overwhelming negative rections of ten, eleven, and twelve years olds who were very disturbed emotionally and expressed thoughts of sadness, empathy for the "babies in the bottle", and a oncern for the displayed bodies. They were also uncofortable and embarrassed viewing the naked bodies as a class.

Anonymous said...

My jaw is on the floor right now... I'm having a hard time swallowing the fact that children were allowed to view this exhibit. For adults alone, this display of science and art is hard to absorb (and it's obvious through the other blogs that were posted) let alone children. I can't believe a school would permit a field trip to the science center to see this.

I have gone and it's an amazing site to see; there aren't words to describe this exhibit other than 'mind blowing' and I would reccomend this experience to any one of my friends, family and co-workers. Although, I will admit that I did talk my sister in law out of taking my nieces; it's not something for their minds to try and process at an early age (they're four).