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Did Jesus Descend to hell
Did Jesus go to hell after he died on the cross? That was the debate. See the comments section of thoughts.
6 comments:
Anonymous
said...
The only thing that comes to mind is Ephesians 4:9&10.
I live in Illinois so I will miss the ApologetiX interview. Please say hi to the guys; they know who I am. (Kim Lyerla)
What's the Church's position on this? Does "hell" in the creed mean sheol as opposed to gehenna? The Vulgate used infernus for sheol and hades and gehenna for itself. These pages offer biblical translation breakdowns that you and Marty might find useful:
The Latin text says that Jesus descended "ad inferna". Does the Church now, or did it at any time, believe that Jesus descended to the place of torment (rather than a waiting area for righteous souls)?
The following page (which based on a Catholic Encyclopedia entry) says:
Regarding the line, "He descended into Hell": "Hell" refers to "Sheol" (Hebrew) or "Hades" (Greek) -- the only "realm of the dead" before Heaven was opened. Sheol consists of different areas, or levels:
o Infernus: the place of torment for the unrighteous damned and the demons. This is the place one most often thinks of when one hears the word "Hell."; o Purgatory: where the saved souls go to be purged of the temporal effects of their sins; o the Limbo of the Infants (Limbus Infantium): a place of perfect, natural subjective happiness to which those who died before Baptism (and so are denied the Beatific Vision) but who have not committed personal sins (so don't warrant punishment) go; o the Limbo of the Patriarchs (Limbus Patrum): where the righteous who lived before Jesus came to earth went. It is this part of "Hell" that Christ descended into. It no longer exists.
However, it doesn't say to which Jesus descended.
This page has and interesting analysis of the Apostles' Creed's two forms - Roman and Recieved:
Interestingly, the Roman form is older and less confusing. The newer, Received, form is used by most of Christendom, including the Catholic Church. The Catholic Encyclopedia claims (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm) that the addition of "descended into hell" was inspired by 1 Peter 3:19.
I hope some of this is helpful and useful to the discussion.
Thanks for the posts. Some of the comments made on the air just make me shake my head. How you can study the Bible your whole life and be so off base is beyond me! You need to understand what the word HELL meant. Hell simply meant "place of the dead" not a place of torment that we think of today. Now Jesus did not physically go to hell. For his body was left on the cross and placed in the tomb. Christ went to preach to souls. See 1 Peter 3 & 4. The issue of Jesus telling the theif on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" is always brought up. Paradise is where God (Jesus) is. If Jesus was in Hell then Hell was Paradise. Paradise did not become the heaven we now UNTIL Ascension of Christ.
The creed says "descended into hell" because "hell" is a translation of the hebrew "sheol" and the Greek "hades". The meaning of hell that is intended is "the realm of the dead", not "the lake of fire".
Yes, He went to Hell, He led captivity captive, He preached to the souls in prison, spent three days and nights in the heart of the earth, took hold of the keys to Hell, and put a beating on Satan. As He physically ascended so did He physically descend. Denying the "physical" aspect of His ascension or descension is denying His own assertations to Thomas post-resurrection.
We must avoid "spiritualizing" what are clearly physical references. Jesus did not intellectualize or spiritualize His way through the the Cross, death, or resurrection.
BTW, poweball, if "Hell" only refers to the dead, how did Abraham, the rich man, and the poor man have a conversation there? Read Isaiah's description of hell. It's a place, and souls are aware.
6 comments:
The only thing that comes to mind is Ephesians 4:9&10.
I live in Illinois so I will miss the ApologetiX interview. Please say hi to the guys; they know who I am. (Kim Lyerla)
What's the Church's position on this? Does "hell" in the creed mean sheol as opposed to gehenna? The Vulgate used infernus for sheol and hades and gehenna for itself. These pages offer biblical translation breakdowns that you and Marty might find useful:
http://what-the-hell-is-hell.com/HellStudy/HellCharts.htm
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/job6c2.htm
The Latin text says that Jesus descended "ad inferna". Does the Church now, or did it at any time, believe that Jesus descended to the place of torment (rather than a waiting area for righteous souls)?
The following page (which based on a Catholic Encyclopedia entry) says:
Regarding the line, "He descended into Hell": "Hell" refers to "Sheol" (Hebrew) or "Hades" (Greek) -- the only "realm of the dead" before Heaven was opened. Sheol consists of different areas, or levels:
o Infernus: the place of torment for the unrighteous damned and the demons. This is the place one most often thinks of when one hears the word "Hell.";
o Purgatory: where the saved souls go to be purged of the temporal effects of their sins;
o the Limbo of the Infants (Limbus Infantium): a place of perfect, natural subjective happiness to which those who died before Baptism (and so are denied the Beatific Vision) but who have not committed personal sins (so don't warrant punishment) go;
o the Limbo of the Patriarchs (Limbus Patrum): where the righteous who lived before Jesus came to earth went. It is this part of "Hell" that Christ descended into. It no longer exists.
However, it doesn't say to which Jesus descended.
This page has and interesting analysis of the Apostles' Creed's two forms - Roman and Recieved:
http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/apostles_creed.htm
Interestingly, the Roman form is older and less confusing. The newer, Received, form is used by most of Christendom, including the Catholic Church. The Catholic Encyclopedia claims (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm) that the addition of "descended into hell" was inspired by 1 Peter 3:19.
I hope some of this is helpful and useful to the discussion.
Thanks for the posts. Some of the comments made on the air just make me shake my head. How you can study the Bible your whole life and be so off base is beyond me! You need to understand what the word HELL meant. Hell simply meant "place of the dead" not a place of torment that we think of today. Now Jesus did not physically go to hell. For his body was left on the cross and placed in the tomb. Christ went to preach to souls. See 1 Peter 3 & 4.
The issue of Jesus telling the theif on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" is always brought up. Paradise is where God (Jesus) is. If Jesus was in Hell then Hell was Paradise. Paradise did not become the heaven we now UNTIL Ascension of Christ.
The creed says "descended into hell" because "hell" is a translation of
the hebrew "sheol" and the Greek "hades". The meaning of hell that is
intended is "the realm of the dead", not "the lake of fire".
Yes, He went to Hell, He led captivity captive, He preached to the souls in prison, spent three days and nights in the heart of the earth, took hold of the keys to Hell, and put a beating on Satan. As He physically ascended so did He physically descend. Denying the "physical" aspect of His ascension or descension is denying His own assertations to Thomas post-resurrection.
We must avoid "spiritualizing" what are clearly physical references. Jesus did not intellectualize or spiritualize His way through the the Cross, death, or resurrection.
God Bless,
FlaFlo
BTW, poweball, if "Hell" only refers to the dead, how did Abraham, the rich man, and the poor man have a conversation there? Read Isaiah's description of hell. It's a place, and souls are aware.
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